Date: Mon, 18 Jul 1994 19:50:00 CDT From: Jeff Gayton Subject: A 4AD debate question concluded It seems that my "4AD debate question" has exhausted itself (and generated some interesting responses), so I thought I'd sort of conclude things by replying to some of the responses I got. For those of you who missed the debate, I made the statement, "The only reason you like is because they are on 4AD." Are there 4AD bands that you wouldn't really listen to very much if they were on a different label, or that you wo uldn't give the same chance (i.e., repeated listenings after initial rejection)? What I wanted to know is how 4AD fans can really know that they like anything on the label, given the emotional, financial, and/or temporal investments in the label. I thought Theo's response was the most interesting. He made the point that you don't have to listen to or even like what you collect. He said, "people don't collect stamps because they love sending letters or clocks because they love the time (these ma y be reasons but there are others)." I really liked this. Of course, I started collecting 4AD because I liked the music and the artwork, and I still collect 4AD for the same reasons. I didn't like everything then and I don't like everything now (though it seems that I like a bit less of the new stuff than of the old). I have a lot of fun trying to get everything 4AD UK ever released (almost as much fun as listening to the music itself), and will continue to do so. My hope/expectation is that Ivo will call it quits before the label degenerates and fans find nothing musical and artistic to desire. Theo made another interesting point as to the "types" of 4AD fans. I think it's true that one's perception of the label depends heavily on how and when one was first introduced to 4AD. I first got into the label via early THROWING MUSES, then moved on to COCTEAU TWINS, DIF JUZ, THIS MORTAL COIL, and THE WOLFGANG PRESS. I think this gives me an appreciation of both the harsh and quiet sounds of 4AD . Many really only got into the harsh or the quiet 4AD stuff. I'm not saying that one's "breadth" makes one a "better" fan (and neither was Theo), but I think this has affected my perception of the 4AD catalog - I tend to like a lot of it (more of it, I think, than many others on this list). It was this "appreciation" of "everything" 4AD that made me wond er if I _really_ liked everything on the label or was somehow deluding myself because of my investments. Marko also said something interesting, which broadened the whole 4AD debate. He said, "You listen more because whoever it is that is playing the music is a person/band/radio station which you know/respect/sympathise with so the extra consideration may e xtend to a level deeper than just the music they play." I agree. I'm sure that part of the reason I (eventually) got into TWP is that I had some friends I thought were really cool who liked them a lot. And hell, when I first got MBV's "Isn't Anything," I thought it was terrible and sold it. But, after reading Melody Maker worship them week after week, I bought it again, and loved it. Part of the reason for the change was my "respect" for Melody Maker, but part of it was that my tastes had changed. Andrew Norman said he hated M/A/R/R/S at first, but now he likes it. He said, "The record hasn't changed, I have." Between my two liste ns to MBV, I'd gotten into the more poppy end of the "shoegazing" spectrum (i.e., RIDE), and I think that that changed my perceptions. When I first heard M/A/R/R/S, I hated dance music, but now that I have come to appreciate some of it, I love "Pump Up T he Volume." I guess that's it, really. I'd like to thank everyone who responded to the debate and apologize to anyone I may have misquoted or misinterpreted. I'd also like to thank the list in general, for their information, their inspiration, and their ability to make me feel that I'm not alone the my devotion to 4AD here in Madison, Wisconsin. - Jeff Jeffrey T. Gayton jtgayton@polisci.wisc.edu ------------------------------