Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 17:15:14 -0700 From: Dewdrops Records (nelson@ASTRO.UCLA.EDU) Subject: Re: gripe about the people at 4AD US I've always had difficulty with people at 4AD US. At times Robb Moore seemed like a friendly sort of guy, even chatty, but trying to get any sort of press promos, even just pictures and bios, has been a disaster. I'm on their mailing list, which apparently doesn't really mean anything, because it's rare that I even get a mailing. At this point it's just a random fax about every 2-4 months. I was starting to think they just didn't give a shit about Dewdrops, so it's good to hear these other stories. I've said it before: I don't think 4AD pays any attention to their fans any more. Maybe they feel they don't need to, like mass-marketing is the only thing that matters to them now. And I'll bet Warner Bros. is to blame. | Brant Nelson | 1817 Corinth Ave. #10 | open your eyes | Dewdrops Records | LA, CA 90025-5567 | to northern skies | Uncommon music that deserves to be heard | | http://www.astro.ucla.edu/students/nelson/dewdrops.html Date: Wed, 17 Apr 1996 19:32:05 -0500 From: Martin Wagner (hepcats@EDEN.COM) Subject: Re: gripe about the people at 4AD US I remember when Wolfgang Press played an in-store at Waterloo in Austin, the whole thing was ineptly organized to the point of being shameful, and I really felt for the band, who were clearly so disgusted with the crappy PA and worse promotion that they obviously couldn't wait to get the set over with and get out of the whole embarrassing predicament. To quote their manager: "A record company couldn't organize a piss-up in a brewery!" What's saddest about this is that ten years ago this kind of bullshit would never have been a problem, most likely, with 4AD. It's only now that they're another faceless head on the Time/Warner media-hydra that they've adopted this "we don't give a fuck...what's that?...a good idea?...fire that person!" attitude. And their new bands all suck. Bye bye, Ivo. Martin Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 09:50:48 -0700 From: Jens Alfke (jens@MOOSEYARD.COM) Subject: Re: misery loves (the record) company deluxx wrote: >Hmm, I see a problem here. Where's all the "happy" music??!! Ivo needs >to grow the fuck up and stop being so fashionably depressed. What about all the Pixies albums? They're pretty gleefully manic, even when Francis is singing about mutilation and incest. And the Cocteau Twins were really only downbeat on their first few releases. Later stuff may be terrifying but in an ecstatic visionary way. And a lot of Pale Saints songs are upbeat. And The Wolfgang Press' "Queer" and "Funky Little Demons". And M/A/R/R/S... My current dislike for 4AD has nothing to do with the emotional tone of the music, just that they're no longer pushing the envelope. Too much stuff that's currently coming out sounds just like any other mainstream alternative music (Belly, Lush, Mojave, Scheer...) Date: Thu, 18 Apr 1996 14:09:30 EDT From: Dez (100702.123@COMPUSERVE.COM) Subject: 4AD vs Time-Warner Seems to me that there's a fair bit of confusion out there amongst some of you, as illustrated by the recent rush of posts slagging off 4AD's US office. They may be a bunch of cretins for all I know or care, but that's not my point. 4AD is a wholly-owned and independently distributed UK record company, like One Little Indian, Mute and Beggar's Banquet and totally unlike Creation-Sony. Time-Warner has absolutely nothing to do with them as far as the domestic market is concerned. But when it comes to selling in a huge market (and geographically huge country) like the USA, a little UK independent stands absolutely zero chance of competing in terms of airplay and sales, or even just getting records into shops. Therefore, they have one of two options. Either they simply license out bands to any record companies interested in them, or they hook-up with some major muscle. 4AD took the latter course of action with Time-Warner. What results is little more than 'badged' product. Says 4AD on the label, but it ain't real 4AD. An analogy would be Budweiser beer. We have it here, but it sure as hell ain't brewed in Milwaukee (or wherever Budweiser comes from), it's brewed on some crappy industrial estate in Warrington, or some other shitty town. Time-Warner have the ultimate say as to what they choose or choose not to release Stateside. Hence your three month wait for the Mojave 3 album that us UK listies had in October. (it works both ways - we haven't had the Scheer album here yet). And hence, also, the hugely priced import singles that you are faced with. It's Warners decision. It may suck big time in your eyes, but consider this. There will be no UK 'Shaving The Pavement' tour, or associated goodies. That again is a Time-Warner thing, and without them, the logistics of it would be totally unfeasible. Lush and Scheer would probably have signed to majors, and you'd be stuck with paying import prices for Mojave 3 records, and no opportunity of seeing them live except for the possible visit to New York for the NMS, or Los Angeles. Just something to mull over, folks. - Dez Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 01:55:21 -0700 From: sheila@TMN.CA Subject: 4ad-l vs. 4AD It seems that lately, for a list called 4ad-l, there is an unusually large percentage of anti-4AD sentiments posted. I wonder how this list would have looked circa 1983-86? A tad more favorable to 4AD, I bet! This list is fast becoming a dumping ground for "I hate 4AD" messages or "I hate Scheer (or whoever else Ivo just signed)" messages. The other discussions of other new bands and other labels is fine and constructive. It's this ongoing negativity directed towards 4AD that seems to be getting out of control. Let's not forget why this list exists and what made us get into 4AD in the first place. Myself, I stumbled upon 4AD by accident after getting into Modern English, Cocteau Twins and This Mortal Coil. It was only after several years I realized that there were plenty of these albums with the 4AD logo on them in my collection. There is a certain feel and enjoyment I've received from listening to music like the 1985 Colourbox album ("Arena" is amazing; should've been a single), Dif Juz's "Extractions" and This Mortal Coil's "Filigree And Shadow" to name only a few that I cannot describe. I only know that I can go back to these and other 4AD releases and receive a great deal of listening pleasure from them. Does 4AD translate into the mid-90's? I believe so. Despite what is said of 4AD on 4ad-l and elsewhere, it's important to realize that Ivo has never stopped challenging our ears with new sounds. New sounds that may not have had the chance without his involvement. How many of you would have picked up Tarnation's "Gentle Creatures" album had it been released on their old label Nuff Said? It's not a "typical" 4AD sound but had it not been for 4AD, I might not have discovered the album. Same with another great 4AD release, "Happiness" from Lisa Germano. Capitol was probably not the best home for Germano at the time and an ears-open Ivo took advantage of this situation and now a third Germano album is out soon under this relationship. I can hardly wait for it! As for the Lush back-lash, we couldn't expect them to re-do "Gala" or "Spooky" over and over again, could we?. They have to move forward as does the label itself. 4AD is not the world's most perfect label but I'm prepared to say it is one of the most innovative and daring ones around, then and now! I never really equate listening to Scheer as listening to bad heavy metal. I like their first two EP's and I'm going to stick around for their album, too. It's the fact that Ivo can search out bands like Scheer, aware they are brilliant, and find them a home on his label. He has the vision bigger labels sorely lack. He is, after all, the man who was able to sign such diverse groups as Cocteau Twins, Bauhaus, Dead Can Dance, Throwing Muses, Pixies, Lush and Pale Saints under the theory that though different in styles, their high quality is all the glue you need to build a label's foundation. 1996 promises to be another year full of new suprises for 4AD, some that I'm sure will find a place in my heart next to all my other 4AD favorites... - Jeff via jscottc@interlog Date: Tue, 23 Apr 1996 11:20:06 -0700 From: Jens Alfke (jens@MOOSEYARD.COM) Subject: Re: 4ad-l vs. 4AD I don't know what to say to this except that, compared to the _really_ innovative and daring stuff going on right now -- and there's a heck of a lot of it -- 4AD is sticking to relatively accessible pop stuff. Tarnation are country with a twist. Scheer are pop-metal with a twist. Lush are new-wave-rock with a twist. Belly and the Breeders/Amps are alternative rock with a twist. There's something a little bit different about each band but they're not markedly different (or markedly better IMHO) from the mainstream. If you compare to truly innovative labels like Kranky, Too Pure, Warp, Apollo, et cetera, 4AD is clinging to the edge of the shallow end of the pool with its hair up in a cap. Back in its glory days 4AD releases often seemed to have an alien, unexplainable nature to them -- particularly of course the Cocteaux and Dead Can Dance, but even the early Throwing Muses and Pixies were breathtaking in how they took your expectations and twisted them into knots. That's gone. One good yardstick is commercial radio, which as ever is terrified of anything that sounds too different. Ten years ago it was hard to imagine commercial radio touching any 4AD product with a ten foot pole (with a few exceptions like Modern English, M/A/R/R/S, or the Pixies starting in '88.) Nowadays I have a hard time thinking of any current 4AD product that _couldn't_ be programmed by a mainstream alterna-rock station (or a mainstream nu-age station in Lisa Gerrard's case.) My feeling is that Ivo ignored or disliked the ambient/techno/drone revolution that's been the major source of innovation in our corner of the music world over the past almost-ten years. As a result the music he releases sounds more and more dated, and ironically more and more mainstream as the mainstream catches up to and devours the sounds that sounded new ten or fifteen years ago. RIP. __________ ___________________ ________________________ Jens Alfke OpenDoc Optimizator jens@apple.com [work] jens@mooseyard.com [play] to wound the autumnal city. So howled out to the world to give him a name. _____________________________ http://www.mooseyard.com/Jens Date: Wed, 24 Apr 1996 13:57:41 -0400 From: Joseph Burns (jaburns@ASTRO.OCIS.TEMPLE.EDU) Subject: Re: 4ad-l vs. 4AD I liked very much Jens' comment about bands being pushed to move forward too fast before given the chance to fully explore the musical vein that they start out in. I would put Ride and Stone Roses in that category as well. I think its unfortunate that this kinda pressure and expectation is put on bands. I also think it has a lot to do with the good old british press who love to proclaim THE NEXT BIG THING! young bands get put on a pedestal and its a long way down. If each subsequent record isnt as earthshattering as the first (or if the press doesnt make it out to be so) suddenly said band is trash. I wish there was someway around this... On that note however, I disagree with the comments about 4AD having 'lost its edge'. Sure there are new and exciting things going on in other areas and other labels than what's come out of 4AD lately. But I'm not sure 4AD has ever been in the business of being cutting edge. 4AD has always had a unique vision, and to some extent this vision, or perhaps style is a better word, has caught on to the point that a lot of other musicians have followed it. But to me it kinda seems like declaring the golden age to be over is kinda similar to problems of setting any single band on a pedestal... its a long way down. And I'm just not convinced that 4AD has fallen that far.